lPrezydent Freedom House , David Kramer is now included in the informal " situational room", which is preparing proposals for the U.S. government response to the events in Ukraine .
Kremer - last Undersecretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Human Rights, as his shoulders - work in the Europe and Eurasia, U.S. foreign policy department. As a member of the Bush team , he set more radical than the current administration. But his proposals announced sooner or later finds expression in the footsteps of the current U.S. government. Kramer first called for sanctions another 3 December last year - and a half months , the U.S. government announced the first restrictions for Ukrainian officials.
In addition, Kremer led organization prepares an annual report on freedom in the world, which the U.S. authorities refer in their public policy argument regarding the " problem" countries.
In an interview with " Ukrainian Truth" David Kramer predicts further steps the U.S. authorities against Yanukovych - and gives advice on whom Washington has focused its early pressure.
- Mr. Kramer, as is perceived in Washington President Yanukovych?
- Yanukovych looks very bad because of what is happening . It looked bad when he decided to stay in the EU integration , it looked bad when it was first used force 30 November, and then December 9. It looked bad throughout the past months .
Now it starts to look like a leader who will do everything to stay in power. The use of force against protesters are unacceptable . But when we in the West are saying that something is unacceptable , we can not accept it , we have something to do about it.
I think that Yanukovych lost the confidence of the West, and any possibility of signing an agreement with the European Union lost. Now the question is whether Yanukovych able to hold dialogue for the peaceful resolution of the conflict - whether pressure should be applied to those around him to try to remove him from power.
Remove peacefully, without confusion . I tend to think that the negotiation settlement will not work as I would not want . I think that too much blood has been spilled , too much violence occurred. So comes the question of how to put pressure on its surroundings.
- Not to him personally ?
- It also . I would start with the people around him are very close to him , his family. And then just increase the pressure .
- Is he reached the point of no return ?
- I think so .
- What does this mean?
- In 2010, Yanukovych won the election legitimately , which were considered by most observers, including me, democratic. I was there during the two rounds of elections. But to win a legitimate election - it does not guarantee legitimacy at all life! I would say that today Yanukovych lost his behavior this legitimacy.
My organization in early events in Ukraine was to dismiss Yanukovych and early presidential elections , but not for his overthrow and not for his removal from power or protesters whether military or anyone else .
For him it's time to draw the correct conclusions : admit that he ruined his own legitimacy and now is the time to retire. He made a reality, not someone else.
The West should apply pressure on it - and those around him - that he and environment is clear that the human rights violations, violence against protestors come consequences. If we do not do - the situation only worse.
- What will Yanukovych?
- I still think the best option for him is to resign , allowing to run for another term in the new elections if he wants to. Let the voters decide whether they want him back in office. But we can not pretend that nothing happened. This can not wait until next March for new presidential elections.
- Does the opposition to give him any guarantees?
- This will probably be an unpopular idea among opposition supporters if they would do so. But I would be inclined to say that they have to provide them.
- What are the guarantees?
- For example, that for new presidential elections will not be conducted investigation of Yanukovich. And independent investigators should determine whether there are grounds for such an investigation. The key now is to stop the violence. And if it is provided , it shall provide a guarantee of the grade if Yanukovych agreed to resign.
- PR all statements of Western leaders says that in Europe and America to the police acted similarly in the case of such disturbances.
- You can not compare democracy in the United States and Ukraine . Our democracy is built over time, we have an independent judiciary , we have separation of powers, we have a system of checks and balances , we have a strong civil society, a strong media. Ukraine has some of this .
I think that civil society manifested itself impressively in the last few years. Journalists like you and others behaved remarkably well despite the existence of a real threat. But Parliament is not a truly independent judicial system is used by the government. While in Ukraine there will be no separation of powers , the courts become independent, our country can not be compared.
- Also, the Ukrainian government said that in America there is the same legislation that passed the Party of Regions. For example , criminal liability for defamation.
- We slander is not a criminal offense. This is a civil issue , which is decided by the court, and a person may be awarded damages. Second, approval of legislation on Jan. 16 was totally undemocratic way , transparent, one vote. This was really stupid .
Why Yanukovych went for it ? I think they wanted to use the law to begin an offensive against protesters. Although it would be far better to leave them alone. After demonstrating lose momentum if there are no natural countermeasures . However, this legislation added fuel to the fire.
Of course, by the protesters should not be violence , but they also should be protected with fire. We should not equate the violence of a small minority of protesters to the level of violence committed by the authorities entrusted with a great responsibility .
- What will be the next step towards Ukraine USA ?
- The U.S. announced the first round of visa sanctions, we do not know against whom specific. Not even the number of persons named in this list. I hope that the U.S. will announce another round of visa sanctions, but more importantly - the freezing of assets, the introduction of financial sanctions. I know I made steps in this direction, working on it. I hope they will be announced soon, although it should have done. I have worked in government for eight years and I know that these things take longer than some people would like .
- During your work in the Bush administration the U.S. had experience of sanctions ?
- Yes, with respect to Belarus. Ukraine is not Belarus , but unfortunately , getting closer and closer to it. Yanukovych is behaving more and more like Lukashenko. But Lukashenko, if you remember , was hit by visa sanctions and asset freeze not only the U.S. but also from the European Union.
- Do you have launched the policy of sanctions ?
- Ideally, the U.S. and the EU are working together. America must take the lead because the EU comprises 28 governments. And to reach agreement in a team is difficult, while the U.S. has only one government and the agreement is much easier to find . After the U.S. does, the EU would be easier to follow it .
- How long does it takes sanctions ?
- In Belarus, it began after the presidential elections in March 2006, and the financial and visa sanctions take effect in June. That is, it takes a few months. But it should not take so long in the case of Ukraine , at least I hope so.
- Do you think that Yanukovych is afraid of sanctions ?
- I do not know whether Yanukovych fear of sanctions. But I think people around the fear of sanctions.
- Who do you mean ?
- I mean some of the oligarchs . Such as Akhmetov Firtash Kolomoysky sons Yanukovych and the list goes to the Yanukovich. So we have to build up pressure , affecting the thinking of these people.
- I aim to be a revolt against President oligarchs ?
- I think I should try to push people out of the circle of Yanukovych , to make them understand that it's time to pass the most important decision in my life : on whose side they want to be ? And we can help them make that decision, hinting that inevitably comes the consequences of the events happening now in Ukraine .
- How would you rate your opposition to current realities ?
- They are in a difficult position. The question remains of how they control the protesters. I think some of them behaved courageously - remember how Klitschko began between protesters and police. The key is to unite the opposition - they must show that there is an alternative to Yanukovych, who has already proved that determined to stay in power at any cost . I hope he will understand what is on the wrong track.
Kremer - last Undersecretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Human Rights, as his shoulders - work in the Europe and Eurasia, U.S. foreign policy department. As a member of the Bush team , he set more radical than the current administration. But his proposals announced sooner or later finds expression in the footsteps of the current U.S. government. Kramer first called for sanctions another 3 December last year - and a half months , the U.S. government announced the first restrictions for Ukrainian officials.
In addition, Kremer led organization prepares an annual report on freedom in the world, which the U.S. authorities refer in their public policy argument regarding the " problem" countries.
In an interview with " Ukrainian Truth" David Kramer predicts further steps the U.S. authorities against Yanukovych - and gives advice on whom Washington has focused its early pressure.
- Mr. Kramer, as is perceived in Washington President Yanukovych?
- Yanukovych looks very bad because of what is happening . It looked bad when he decided to stay in the EU integration , it looked bad when it was first used force 30 November, and then December 9. It looked bad throughout the past months .
Now it starts to look like a leader who will do everything to stay in power. The use of force against protesters are unacceptable . But when we in the West are saying that something is unacceptable , we can not accept it , we have something to do about it.
I think that Yanukovych lost the confidence of the West, and any possibility of signing an agreement with the European Union lost. Now the question is whether Yanukovych able to hold dialogue for the peaceful resolution of the conflict - whether pressure should be applied to those around him to try to remove him from power.
Remove peacefully, without confusion . I tend to think that the negotiation settlement will not work as I would not want . I think that too much blood has been spilled , too much violence occurred. So comes the question of how to put pressure on its surroundings.
- Not to him personally ?
- It also . I would start with the people around him are very close to him , his family. And then just increase the pressure .
- Is he reached the point of no return ?
- I think so .
- What does this mean?
- In 2010, Yanukovych won the election legitimately , which were considered by most observers, including me, democratic. I was there during the two rounds of elections. But to win a legitimate election - it does not guarantee legitimacy at all life! I would say that today Yanukovych lost his behavior this legitimacy.
My organization in early events in Ukraine was to dismiss Yanukovych and early presidential elections , but not for his overthrow and not for his removal from power or protesters whether military or anyone else .
For him it's time to draw the correct conclusions : admit that he ruined his own legitimacy and now is the time to retire. He made a reality, not someone else.
The West should apply pressure on it - and those around him - that he and environment is clear that the human rights violations, violence against protestors come consequences. If we do not do - the situation only worse.
- What will Yanukovych?
- I still think the best option for him is to resign , allowing to run for another term in the new elections if he wants to. Let the voters decide whether they want him back in office. But we can not pretend that nothing happened. This can not wait until next March for new presidential elections.
- Does the opposition to give him any guarantees?
- This will probably be an unpopular idea among opposition supporters if they would do so. But I would be inclined to say that they have to provide them.
- What are the guarantees?
- For example, that for new presidential elections will not be conducted investigation of Yanukovich. And independent investigators should determine whether there are grounds for such an investigation. The key now is to stop the violence. And if it is provided , it shall provide a guarantee of the grade if Yanukovych agreed to resign.
- PR all statements of Western leaders says that in Europe and America to the police acted similarly in the case of such disturbances.
- You can not compare democracy in the United States and Ukraine . Our democracy is built over time, we have an independent judiciary , we have separation of powers, we have a system of checks and balances , we have a strong civil society, a strong media. Ukraine has some of this .
I think that civil society manifested itself impressively in the last few years. Journalists like you and others behaved remarkably well despite the existence of a real threat. But Parliament is not a truly independent judicial system is used by the government. While in Ukraine there will be no separation of powers , the courts become independent, our country can not be compared.
- Also, the Ukrainian government said that in America there is the same legislation that passed the Party of Regions. For example , criminal liability for defamation.
- We slander is not a criminal offense. This is a civil issue , which is decided by the court, and a person may be awarded damages. Second, approval of legislation on Jan. 16 was totally undemocratic way , transparent, one vote. This was really stupid .
Why Yanukovych went for it ? I think they wanted to use the law to begin an offensive against protesters. Although it would be far better to leave them alone. After demonstrating lose momentum if there are no natural countermeasures . However, this legislation added fuel to the fire.
Of course, by the protesters should not be violence , but they also should be protected with fire. We should not equate the violence of a small minority of protesters to the level of violence committed by the authorities entrusted with a great responsibility .
- What will be the next step towards Ukraine USA ?
- The U.S. announced the first round of visa sanctions, we do not know against whom specific. Not even the number of persons named in this list. I hope that the U.S. will announce another round of visa sanctions, but more importantly - the freezing of assets, the introduction of financial sanctions. I know I made steps in this direction, working on it. I hope they will be announced soon, although it should have done. I have worked in government for eight years and I know that these things take longer than some people would like .
- During your work in the Bush administration the U.S. had experience of sanctions ?
- Yes, with respect to Belarus. Ukraine is not Belarus , but unfortunately , getting closer and closer to it. Yanukovych is behaving more and more like Lukashenko. But Lukashenko, if you remember , was hit by visa sanctions and asset freeze not only the U.S. but also from the European Union.
- Do you have launched the policy of sanctions ?
- Ideally, the U.S. and the EU are working together. America must take the lead because the EU comprises 28 governments. And to reach agreement in a team is difficult, while the U.S. has only one government and the agreement is much easier to find . After the U.S. does, the EU would be easier to follow it .
- How long does it takes sanctions ?
- In Belarus, it began after the presidential elections in March 2006, and the financial and visa sanctions take effect in June. That is, it takes a few months. But it should not take so long in the case of Ukraine , at least I hope so.
- Do you think that Yanukovych is afraid of sanctions ?
- I do not know whether Yanukovych fear of sanctions. But I think people around the fear of sanctions.
- Who do you mean ?
- I mean some of the oligarchs . Such as Akhmetov Firtash Kolomoysky sons Yanukovych and the list goes to the Yanukovich. So we have to build up pressure , affecting the thinking of these people.
- I aim to be a revolt against President oligarchs ?
- I think I should try to push people out of the circle of Yanukovych , to make them understand that it's time to pass the most important decision in my life : on whose side they want to be ? And we can help them make that decision, hinting that inevitably comes the consequences of the events happening now in Ukraine .
- How would you rate your opposition to current realities ?
- They are in a difficult position. The question remains of how they control the protesters. I think some of them behaved courageously - remember how Klitschko began between protesters and police. The key is to unite the opposition - they must show that there is an alternative to Yanukovych, who has already proved that determined to stay in power at any cost . I hope he will understand what is on the wrong track.
Комментариев нет:
Отправить комментарий